the taliban is -- do you think taking advantage of this timeline? >> look, the taliban -- what we have found out and you saw it in iraq, martha, unless you set a timeline, baghdad in the case of iraq and kabul in the case of afghanistan, will not step up. they're happy to let us continue to do the job. international security forces to do the job. the only way they step up is say, fellas, we are leaving. we have trained you. step up. step up. >> martha: let me -- >> that's the only way it works. >> martha: let me go back to the surge troops that we put in there and you brought this up, congressman ryan. i have talked to a lot of troops, i have talked to senior officer who is were concerned that the surge troops were pulled out during the fighting season. and some of them saw that as a political move. so can you tell me, vice-president biden, what was the military reason for bringing those surged troops homes. >> the military reason -- by the way, when the president announced the surge, you will remember, martha, he said, the surge will be out by the